The latest genealogists most of the contemplate it high one Nicholas’ spouse Clementia are incorporated here because the, around regular products, she would never be mentioned. Whenever Susanna within some afterwards big date got out to a different sort of guardian, the fresh spouse of that protector wasn’t mentioned.
This should mean that King John spent sometime here and you can the possibility of an amorous liaison having Clementia is obtainable
Below we have found an idea complex by the specific eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to say that the fresh findings is actually hotly contested!
That it concept leads to a great and you will curious ‘twist’ regarding the facts out-of Joanna, that could appeal admirers out of HBD!
At first glance, there is nothing to strongly recommend any commitment amongst the hostage, Susanna from Wales and Clementia, wife of Nicholas de Verdun. Although not, the experience of particular genealogists having foreign hostages, like young ones, has been which they had been usually put which have family members, or no was available.
Moving forward to 1236, there is certainly an entrance about Tewkesbury annals hence relates to Joanna’s mommy since the “King Clemencie!” It checks out in part:
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Now, we know that mom out of Joanna is actually titled Clementia (Clemence?
In such a case the monk was plainly indulging inside medieval legalism. Ahead of their own death, Joanna had been legitimised from the Pope. On the basis of you to definitely legitimisation, the brand new Tewksbury monk evidently got it abreast of himself to raise Joanna’s mother on the standing off King, because if their unique mommy was actually King John’s spouse! It is a fact yet not, you to definitely Queen John and Clementia was never ever married. By the talking about Joanna’s mother due to the fact “Queen” Clementia, this new monk just who filed Joanna’s dying is appearing his tall value having Joanna, however attempting to alter the true points.
As for the name out of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget signifies that she try the fresh daughter off Roger de Dauntsey, regarding Wiltshire. You to definitely genealogist takes into account they high you to definitely Clementia acclaimed from Wiltshire due to the fact he has noticed that Queen John got a robust connection to help you that condition, it being the domestic out-of their most trusted partners, the new Longespee, ilies and Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists have found that name ‘Clementia’ is actually most uncommon certainly one of English noblewomen of months. In one single dining table off ladies labels which was built-up, there had been just one or two incidents of one’s label “Clementia” from a maximum of 1407 feamales in the newest shot! That some one called Clementia might possibly be in the Susanna is considered significant.
Very! The data try effective, but not conclusive, one inside 1228, Susanna, since good hostage, received off to new proper care of their unique maternal grandma, today wife out-of Nicholas de Verdun!!
This new Scottish genealogists of the MacDuffs’ keep one to Susanna ferch Llywelyn was created 1214 into the Gwynnedd, Wales and died c. 1259 for the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl of Fife in the 1230 together with a couple pupils: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl away from Fife, born 1245, died 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff produced 1247.
Needless to say, discover counter objections to all or any that it conjecture! King John had of a lot mistresses and perhaps as much as seven illegitimate students. The caretaker out-of Joanna could have been born circa 1172 and you will marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself came into this world circa 1191 (14 yrs . old in the course of their relationships so you can Llywelyn). Rohese, this new identified genuine child out-of Nicholas de Verdun along with his partner Clementia was given birth to circa 1210-1213. When the Clementia was the caretaker from Joanna, she would have been in their particular later 30’s, early 40’s when pregnancy to help you Rohese! Perhaps not hopeless, certain say, but improbable.